I Lost – the Money and the Computer

Well, I got the final verdict from PayPal the other day. They are really, really sorry, but due to the fact I did not ship to the address in the "Transaction Details" as required for the "Seller's Protection" I am out  the money and the computer.

Funny thing, after reading the email telling me they had reversed the charge on the credit card used, I called and who did I get in the "Security Department?" Why none other than my good friend Matt. I started laughing and hung up. Okay two questions come to mind, is Matt the only person who works in security and/or is everything handled alphabetically? I couldn't go another round with Matt. Having a burning desire to scream, yes scream at someone at PayPal I called back. Luckily, this time I get Gerald.

I will give Gerald one plus, (the old saying give credit where credit is due) he had as much professionalism as PayPal would allow.

If you remember in an earlier post, I went over the email I got from PayPal where they "recommended" that I send to the address on the "Transaction Details," and questioned Gerald whether PayPal  understood the difference between "recommended" and "required". He said they did. I then asked why if PayPal understood the difference they would send the email worded as they do. He's response was great:

"Well we really can't require you to do it. Many merchants don't want to do and just take the risk of losing their money and product."

After going around and around with Gerald and being put on hold several times, I brought to his attention that not once during PayPal's on hold commercials did I hear anything about the security they offer their sellers. Heard lots about how they protect the buyer though. As with much of what I brought to his attention, he had nothing to say.

I finally decided to go looking for this "requirement." It took five (5) clicks to get there. When someone doesn't want you to find something, they hide it deep in their web site. I fully believe that PayPal doesn't want you to know about this little "requirement." PayPal/eBay is well aware of the fraud being committed on the two sites. Can you imagine what the quarterly reports would be if PayPal/eBay actually had to start paying for their seller's losses?One other kicker from PayPal, when you sign first sign up for your account, you agree not to sue them for any damages done to you using their services. Isn't that nice.

Companies like PayPal/eBay are what is wrong with America today. Once companies took pride in the service you got from them, today they take pride in how deceptive they can be. A sorry state we are in.

One last thought on how really, really sorry they are this happened to me; as I said to Gerald – you don't give a rat's butute (sp?) that I lost the money and computer. Again, he had nothing to say.

Recommendation vs. Requirement

According to Webster, the definition of "recommendation" is:

verb [ trans. ]
1 put forward (someone or something) with approval as being suitable for a particular purpose or role : George had recommended some local architects | a book I recommended to a friend of mine.

•  advise or suggest (something) as a course of action : some doctors recommend putting a board under the mattress | [with clause ] the report recommended that criminal charges be brought.
• [ trans. ] advise (someone) to do something : you are strongly recommended to seek professional advice.
• make (someone or something) appealing or desirable : the house had much to recommend it.

2 ( recommend someone/something to) archaic commend or entrust someone or something to (someone) : I devoutly recommended my spirit to its maker.

And the Webster definition of "required" is:

Need for a particular purpose; depend on for success or survival : three patients required operations.

• cause to be necessary : it would have required much research to produce a comprehensive list.
•  specify as compulsory : the minimum car insurance required by law.
•  [ trans. ] (of someone in authority) instruct or expect (someone) to do something : you will be required to attend for cross-examination.
•  ( require something of) regard an action, ability, or quality as due from (someone) by virtue of their position : the care and diligence required of him as a trustee.>
•  wish to have : please indicate how many tickets you require.

The first question, why would PayPal send an email that "recommends" that I ship to the address in the Transaction Details, but really mean it's required?

Will I sell with eBay again, no.

Will I use PayPal again? Unfortunately, the answer right now is yes. I have a store at etsy.com (http://www.bigmaxsstudio.etsy.com) check it out, great stuff and that's the only way I can get paid.The bad news for Etsy, is I've also opened a store at 1000markets.com (http://www.1000markets.com/users/bigmaxsstudio). They use the Amazon. As soon as I figure out how to promote my items through their web site as well as I do Etsy, I'll move everything over.

Having just read eBay/PayPal's quarterly reports, it's no wonder they are not making their projections.

As of now, my claim with PayPal is still classified as "Open Disputes & Claims."

My Good Buddy Matt and the Hollywood Police Department

In the dialog Matt and I had, can't really call it a conversation. I asked him if I should file a police report. As with most things I said to Matt, he found this quite amusing and in his most cynical way said sure if I'd like to waste more time on this. I asked Matt why PayPal wouldn't find this helpful. For after all if by chance the police department did find these lovely people wouldn't PayPal want to know. Once again, Matt assured me PayPal wasn't going to give me the money no matter what happened since I didn't send it to the address on the credit card.

Where Do I File The Police Report?

I made the transaction on my computer in my office in Fort Lauderdale, but I live in Oakland Park and the computer was shipped to Hollywood. Usually you go to the police department where the transaction took place. Not with internet fraud you go to where the item was shipped to. So off to the Hollywood Police Department. Glad they are only 15 miles away.

The first thing I learned was this is not fraud but Grand Theft. Okay, whatever I just want my money or the computer back. Detective Eddie reviewed my documents and gave me about as much hope as my good buddy Matt, but was a lot more sympathetic. Out of sure frustration I asked Detective Eddie if he would just humor me and do a drive by, after all who knows he may just stumble upon the ring of internet thieves everyone has been looking for. Okay, so I read too many James Patterson novels.

Detective Eddie assured me yes they would go to the address I was provided and take a look. He told me not to go there myself. I told him "self" and I had already had the conversation that I wouldn't be going there. Although, it is very tempting to do.

Detective Eddie then proceeded to tell how hard this would be to prosecute and how this scheme works.

• First, if they found the computer, or any other stolen stuff at the address they would then have to find the drive for FedEx and have him/her come in for a photo lineup. Detective Eddie asked me how many people I thought FedEx drivers saw a day. Okay, not much hope there.
• Second, these people (the criminals) pick an address and learn exactly when the FedEx truck will be there and greet the driver before he/she even gets to the front door. Most often, they meet the driver a block away and say, "hey I'm about to leave and I'm expecting a package can I get it now?" Makes it easy for the driver, one less stop.

So I left the Hollywood Police Department with a case number and was told to call back in 15 business days (yes I know the difference between calendar and business) to get a copy of the report. I forwarded the case number on to PayPal and as of now I haven't heard anymore from them and the case remains open. 

I make a comment to someone that the criminals of today's society are smarter than we are. He said no they are not. Okay then, they are smarter than me. No way could I think up these schemes.

How PayPal Wiggles Out of Paying "Seller Protection"

Recently, I sold a 17" MacBook Pro on ebay. The buyer and I had had several email conversations regarding the purchase and shipping of the computer. The long and short of it was a couple of kids were buying the computer for their father as a birthday present and wanted it shipped directly to him. Since they wanted the computer shipped overnight through FedEx, they would provide the shipping label. I had offered free shipping but, not overnight and not for Saturday delivery.

As soon as I got the email from ebay saying "Congratulations, your item sold!", I immediately invoiced the buyer and as promised a couple of hours later she paid through PayPal. I received an email from PayPal telling me the funds were in my account and that they had been "verified." The email also stated that the funds would remain in the "pending" status for the next 21 days. The very next paragraph stated:

"To get access to this money more quickly, please process this order right away and communicate with your customers early and often."

The email ended with the following:

We "recommend" that you:

• Log in and go to the Transaction Details page to see if you're eligible for seller protection on this payment
• Ship to the buyer's address on the Transaction Details page
• Use a shipping service that offers signature confirmation
• Save all tracking information or other proof of shipment
• Let your buyer know their item shipped by adding tracking information on the Transaction Details page

Not wanting to wait 21 days for the money, I followed PayPal's "recommendations" except for bullet point two. "Ship to the buyer's address on the Transaction Details page." Bullet point two is PayPal's wiggle room. Evidently, it's not a "recommendation" but rather a requirement in order to have their "Seller's Protection."

The first person I spoke to at PayPal was very helpful and stated I provided all of the necessary information and that more than likely this was going to be PayPal's loss. I called back later that day and spoke with someone by the name of Matt in the security department, and he had quite a different attitude.

According to Matt, due to my ignorance and the fact I didn't follow all the rules (shipped to a different address that what was on the credit card), this was going to be my loss and next time I sold something he recommended I follow all the rules. I pointed out to Matt that the name was the same on both the credit card and shipping label I was provided. This is where Matt really dug in his heels and kept saying over and over again, I didn't follow all of the rules and I didn't qualify for "Seller's Protection." Numerous times during our conversation, I tried to explain to Matt that for someone who lives in south Florida (as I do), it makes perfect sense for them to have a Maryland billing address but request to have the item shipped to a Florida address anytime after October. Matt could understand that theory.

Even though Matt assured me PayPal was going to do a complete investigation, he was sure they weren't going to do anything for me and that my case would be close. I did manage to get out of Matt what they were going to do in their complete investigation. Here's what he said:

• They would look into the credit use of the person who is claiming his card was used without authorization. If he had several third party people using his card, then they would assume he authorized the charge.
• They would look into how the buyer bought other items through PayPal.
• They would contact the buyer.

I asked Matt how long this complete investigation would take and he said 10 days. I then asked whether that was calendar or business days. He replied 10 days. Again, I asked calendar or business days. I said 10 days, was his response. Again, I asked calendar or business days. This time he asked, what's the difference? I then proceeded to explain the difference to my good friend Matt at which time he said calendar.

After going round and round with Matt over the rules I didn't follow and explaining to him the difference between calendar and business days, I hung up. Ten minutes later a got an survey to fill out on Matt performance. Hopefully he's not still working there.

As of this morning the case has not been resolved or closed nor have I heard anything from PayPal. I did notice that yesterday PalPay sent a letter to the buyer. Can't imagine what's in the letter, but I'm sure the buyer is real worried.

Any one else have this experience with PayPal?